太阳光球目视请问两位老兄：

1.有无好的目镜可以推荐，能否对用过的目镜给个评论

2.物镜端减光和 amoebahydra兄用的特殊天顶接目端减光对镜筒内部（对折镜）气流是否影响不同，如有影响如何消除？

3.在人为可以控制的因素中，如何获得好的seeing

4.白天观测时间段及时间长短有何讲究？

5.目视米粒组织需要什么条件？

新手看太阳，要问的太多了，多谢。

QUOTE:

以下是引用wzc在2007-12-23 21:43:51的发言：

太阳光球目视请问两位老兄：

1.有无好的目镜可以推荐，能否对用过的目镜给个评论

I have to use English to write as I can express my views more clearly.

My system comprises of 80/600mm with Coronado Solarmax 40 / BF 10 H-alpha filters.  Thus, what i say is based on what i have.  With a H-alpha filter like the SM90, the views through an eyepiece will be different in terms of brightness and contrast.  

I have used TMB Supermono, Tak Orthos, Tak LE, Brandon Orthos, SMC Orthos.  Out of these, i felt that the TV 7mm Nagler 6 was the most unsuitable as there are reflections within the eyepiece, perhaps due to more glass elements in it.  The rest of the Orthos provide great views.  I have already assumed Orthoscopics are more suitable for H-alpha viewing.  

With my system, 7mm is the shortest I will use to give me a relatively good view.  The longer the focal length, the better the view - more contrast, sharpness. Among the few types which I have, I felt there was no significant differences between the Supermonos, Tak Orthos and SMC Orthos.  As for Brandon Orthos, they give sharp views but there seems to be some internal reflections, which made the dark area surrounding the Sun look greyish.  However, Brandon Orthos gives me wider field of view, allowing me to find the Sun more easily than the others. 

I also had compared the CEMAX 12mm with a TMB supermono 12mm, and also found no significant differences.  On some occasions, I did notice that the CEMAX shows clearer prominence than the Supermono 12mm. 

I have tried Tak LE18mm, but i still prefer the Tak Orthos.  In short, good orthos will provide good view of the Sun in H-alpha and white light.

I am waiting for a next batch of orthos for me to compare (the Orthos that i had ordered through Astroview) hehee..

QUOTE:

2.物镜端减光和 amoebahydra兄用的特殊天顶接目端减光对镜筒内部（对折镜）气流是否影响不同，如有影响如何消除？

I'm not sure what the words meant, sorry 

QUOTE:

3.在人为可以控制的因素中，如何获得好的seeing

I always hoped for good weather, and find a spot where there is more open space.  A higher ground allows you to track the Sun for a longer time, without obstruction.  If you have tall buildings around you, chances are that your observation period will be shorter.  

QUOTE:

4.白天观测时间段及时间长短有何讲究？

This is also a man-made situation - I like to observe in the early mornings where there is less heat(water vapour) generated from the ground.  Many times, the sun seemed to glow much brighter during mid-day.  In the end, as long as I could view the Sun, anytime matters.  Oh, you must have the time too!

QUOTE:

5.目视米粒组织需要什么条件？

Sorry, I don't know what is the thing you are referring to. 

QUOTE:

新手看太阳，要问的太多了，多谢。

These questions are only the beginning.  I also asked around and read up alot too.  I'm glad to help.

英文看得晕头转向了。。。。。。。。。。多谢huangwy兄！还是解惑不少。

对不住了（来人啊，快翻译！）。请问第二和第五是什么？

你们两个说的我都明白，但是翻译成英文我差了点，还是请DENEBMAN帮忙翻译把，这个问题太专业了[em04]

简单翻译一下，希望黄兄这次能看明白了，呵呵。

2.物镜端减光和 amoebahydra兄用的特殊天顶接目端减光对镜筒内部（对折镜）气流是否影响不同，如有影响如何消除？

When it comes to the influence of tube current on solar observing using a refractor, what are the differences between filtering through objective and diagonal? And how to minimize/eliminate the influence?

5.目视米粒组织需要什么条件？

What do we need (optically) to see the granules (solar)?

从黄兄的回答来看，太阳观测和行星类似，简单至上。Or和Monocentric目镜仍然是不二的选择。

QUOTE:

4.白天观测时间段及时间长短有何讲究？

10点到2点比较好，总之，太阳尽量高一些，以降低大气扰动的影响。

QUOTE:

以下是引用denebman在2007-12-24 9:06:44的发言：

简单翻译一下，希望黄兄这次能看明白了，呵呵。

2.物镜端减光和 amoebahydra兄用的特殊天顶接目端减光对镜筒内部（对折镜）气流是否影响不同，如有影响如何消除？

When it comes to the influence of tube current on solar observing using a refractor, what are the differences between filtering through objective and diagonal? And how to minimize/eliminate the influence?

Thanks for the translation.

From what i have read, using a refractor, there are 2 systems that are available.  One is that the filter must be put at the front of the objective.  The Coronado front filter consist of the etalon as well as the protective energy rejection filter.  This filter MUST be used together with the blocking filter to allow us to view the Sun safely. In the case of Coronado, the blocking filter is fixed into a normal diagonal.  amoebahrya had mentioned this before and had shown us his blocking filter dismantled. Looking at the Coronado setup, the amount of energy or heat turbulences within the refractor is greatly minimised (because of the front energy rejection filter)

Solar filters (H-alpha or white light filters) are never put at the back of the refractor system. The high energy coming through the scope's front objective are too high for safe observation.  amoebahrya had once again pointed this out when kasta was enquiring about solar observing in a recent post (hope i remembered correctly).  

The second system is that the H-alpha filters are placed behind the objective.  In this system, Users are always required to purchase both the H-alpha filter as well as the energy rejection filter (to be put in front of the objective.  (Eg. Baader Solar Spectrum and Thousand Oaks H-alpha filters).  Both systems have their own pros and cons.

In short, (oops) there is not much to be concerned about the tube current.  (amoebahrya: correct me if I'm wrong)  

QUOTE:

5.目视米粒组织需要什么条件？

What do we need (optically) to see the granules (solar)?

Larger lens aperture, smaller f-stop, longer focal length, higher power.  My aperture is quite small(80mm) and during visual observation (in white light), i am unable to see the granules.  It is only after image processing that I could see a little.  I read that by moving left and right slowly (using the knobs on the mount), it is easier to see granulation.  Maybe it works.

My information comes from what i could remember so far, if i'm wrong, please let me know. thanks!

晕啊，伙计们。。。。。。。。。

米粒组织小且反差低，有无目视米粒组织的切身经验，需要啥样的视宁度，镜子口径底线多少？相比之下黑子和光斑太容易看到了。

QUOTE:

以下是引用wzc在2007-12-23 21:43:51的发言：

太阳光球目视请问两位老兄：

1.有无好的目镜可以推荐，能否对用过的目镜给个评论

2.物镜端减光和 amoebahydra兄用的特殊天顶接目端减光对镜筒内部（对折镜）气流是否影响不同，如有影响如何消除？

3.在人为可以控制的因素中，如何获得好的seeing

4.白天观测时间段及时间长短有何讲究？

5.目视米粒组织需要什么条件？

新手看太阳，要问的太多了，多谢。

wzc兄，

看來您的興趣是太阳的光球層(photosphere)而不是Ha的色球層(chromosphere)，故此並不需要日珥镜。所看的目標應该是黑子，米粒及白斑。

1.有无好的目镜可以推荐，能否对用过的目镜给个评论

  这要看光球的观察方法，如用目镜投影式就不能用有胶合的目镜；要選用Ramsden或Huygenian的目镜。

  因為光球層是白光的光譜，并不如Ha须要优化於紅;所以用物镜端滤镜或太阳棱镜的話就可用一般的目镜就可以了。我是用Vixen的LV Zoom 8-24mm目镜。

2.物镜端减光和 amoebahydra兄用的特殊天顶接目端减光对镜筒内部（对折镜）气流是否影响不同，如有影响如何消除？

 用物镜端减光理論上会预先減IR綫对气流是有正面影响，但实际上对镜筒封閉的折射镜來说影响不大。用高精度反射面(Zeiss做的Wedge棱镜)的Baader太阳棱镜，分析度更勝於气流影响多。 

3.在人为可以控制的因素中，如何获得好的seeing

  一般來说應選擇在湖边或海边的位置，在镜及太阳之間應该是廣宽的水面以減低空氣的温差。一般來说太阳观测的seeing是3-4弧秒，故此大过90mm口徑的镜是没有好處的。

4.白天观测时间段及时间长短有何讲究？

  白天观测时间段最好还是早上在太阳未加熱地面引致熱对流之前。

5.目视米粒组织需要什么条件？

   米粒(granule)的結構是大概2弧秒宽，这就是说要有非常少的大气擾动才可以觀察；这是為什庅有名的太阳观测站都要在海边或湖边如西斑牙的La Palma岛上的Observatorio del Roque de los Muchachos 及美国洛杉磯大熊湖畔的Big Bear Solar Observatory。在普通环境目視观察米粒是很困難，比較高一点机会是在寒冷早上在太阳未加熱地面前用高分折度的太阳稜镜，solar continuum滤镜及高速视频相机來携取大量照片；跟著用统計軟件如Registrax來選取迅时及局部的清晰米粒像以组合米粒照片。

  Solar Continuum filter是在绿色段540nm的10nm频宽滤镜， 在这频譜区太阳没有吸收或放射線；故能加强米粒及半影区的反差。

•

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-12-24 19:16:48编辑过]

QUOTE:

以下是引用amoebahydra在2007-12-24 18:52:06的发言：

wzc兄，

1.有无好的目镜可以推荐，能否对用过的目镜给个评论

  这要看光球的观察方法，如用目镜投影式就不能用有胶合的目镜；要選用Ramsden或Huygenian的目镜。

  因為光球層是白光的光譜，并不如Ha须要优化於紅;所以用物镜端滤镜或太阳棱镜的話就可用一般的目镜就可以了。我是用Vixen的LV Zoom 8-24mm目镜。

4.白天观测时间段及时间长短有何讲究？

  白天观测时间段最好还是早上在太阳未加熱地面引致熱对流之前。

天文台观测黑子都是选10点到2点这个时间段。莫非是因为他们早上还没上班？

目镜的选择嘛，太高的倍数没什么用，100倍以内就够了。

QUOTE:

以下是引用dingye在2007-12-24 19:12:15的发言：

天文台观测黑子都是选10点到2点这个时间段。莫非是因为他们早上还没上班？

目镜的选择嘛，太高的倍数没什么用，100倍以内就够了。

这是工作態度及目標問题，可能他們只对黑子數目有興趣而巳。

給时間舆太阳加熱地面一定会引起熱对流而惡化seeing，这是仪器所不能補償的。要清晰影像我一定珍惜早上。

我也有vixen 8－24mm配合巴德膜背景旋光不小，huangwy兄推荐or类目镜改日再仔细试试。阿米巴兄这个天顶哪里能买到？

受益匪浅！等消化消化再来问过！

我该回去继续努力学习。谢谢阿兄！[em01]

QUOTE:

以下是引用wzc在2007-12-24 20:37:40的发言：

...阿米巴兄这个天顶哪里能买到？...

我的太阳棱镜是德国的巴德(Baader)做的，但是从美国的Alpine Astronomical邮购回来的。型号是:

Baader/Zeiss 2" Deluxe Herschel Wedge Solar Prism Version P (编号为HERSCH-P)连Continuum及四块减光滤镜

售价为美金609

APM Telescopes 也有在卖Herschel Wedge.  http://web26.h137151.serverkompetenz.net/html/
) e6 A& e7 A$ C天文论坛,天文,望远镜,天文望远镜,apo,ed,televue,tv,tmb,高桥,ap,tec,望远镜评测，望远镜测评,双筒望远镜，天顶，目镜，望远镜配件，赤道仪

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-12-26 0:57:47编辑过]

5 [; B: n/ ?0 U2 nwww.astroview.com.cn

阿兄真是，，，，，我不知道该如何说了，什么都玩得这么专业，请问是否是科学家？

我对您的敬仰有如滔滔江水。。。。。

QUOTE:

以下是引用kasta在2007-12-26 8:27:47的发言：

阿兄真是，，，，，我不知道该如何说了，什么都玩得这么专业，请问是否是科学家？

我对您的敬仰有如滔滔江水。。。。。

哇，没想到爱祖祖你也这么喜欢周星星啊，嘿嘿。[em07]